I can't figure Obama out

[Brad]

I watch NBC Nightly News nearly every night. The other night he said (as in there was a video clip of him saying) that he felt that the surge in Iraq did not work. YET, he has a plan for a surge in Afghanistan to help fight the Taliban.

On tonight's news, Obama was talking about how the violence has reduced in the monthes since the surge.

So, here is where I am at, if the surge did not work, why is there a lot less violence since it? Also, if it did not work, why would you want to try the same strategy in Afghanistan?

[scrappy]

talking to a lot of people up here afganistan is worse off than iraq right now. the taliban has moved that direction since we took falugah

[rexvos]

everyone must realize that anything that Bush endorses every liberal must acknowledge that it is wrong and moronic. It does not matter what reality is that is policy.

[JuanGonzales]

everyone must realize that anything that Bush endorses every liberal must acknowledge that it is wrong and moronic. It does not matter what reality is that is policy.

:lollol::lollol::lollol: so true.

[Bounty13]

The terrain in Afghanistan is some of the most difficult on the Earth. Seeing how we haven't reinforced anything there in years, and the lackluster performance from NATO and the UN. And non-action from Pakistan to enter lawless regions in their country, this same uprising would have happened regardless if we were in Iraq or not.

And yes...

H. Obama has absolutely no idea what these wars look like.

John McCain has no idea how to run a presidential campaign.

God have mercy on us all.

[timonahan]

everyone must realize that anything that Bush endorses every liberal must acknowledge that it is wrong and moronic. It does not matter what reality is that is policy.

so true.

[LionRyan]

Political discussion. Bad idea.;)

[AUTaxMan]

Because Obama doesn't actually believe anything he says. He just says what he thinks the media will respond to most favorably.

[Bounty13]

Because Obama doesn't actually believe anything he says. He just says what he thinks the media will respond to most favorably.

Because if he would have ran on the same Iraq platform has Hillary, he would not be the nominee. Now that he has the nominee, he can shift positions from all the people who supported him (far left) and start to move closer to the middle and win some of the independent vote. Of course no one notices this...

[rexvos]

Political discussion. Bad idea.;)

read forum title.

[b70x7n]

everyone must realize that anything that Bush endorses every liberal must acknowledge that it is wrong and moronic. It does not matter what reality is that is policy.

Because Obama doesn't actually believe anything he says. He just says what he thinks the media will respond to most favorably.

Win.

[LionRyan]

read forum title.

Political Forum....Bad Idea.;)

...just kidding. yeesh...

[GiantFan]

Because if he would have ran on the same Iraq platform has Hillary, he would not be the nominee. Now that he has the nominee, he can shift positions from all the people who supported him (far left) and start to move closer to the middle and win some of the independent vote. Of course no one notices this...

Every candidate does this. Obama has just taken it to a new level by changing positions on almost everything.

We are totally screwed. I have lost all faith in our government getting anything done anymore. They spend WAY too much money on crap that very few americans care about but there is a lobby that they must bow to so they push stuff through. It sucks.......all of it!

And if Obama is elected I'm scared of what will happen. The government will start providing everything for people. He will move us closer to socialism than any other president and I think that sucks.

McCain is not much better but at least he is not going to raise taxes, cut and run from Iraq leaving a bigger mess and a haven for terrorists and create a government funded healthcare system that hasn't worked well in almost every country that tried it. Government run healthcare will cost the country billions of dollars. Where are they going to get that money???? From you and I in our taxes. :(

[Bounty13]

I don't like either of the nominees. If Clinton would have beat Obama, I would not care who won the general election because I know neither Clinton or McCain would screw up this country. But now that Obama is probably going to be our next president, I cannot believe Americans are going to elect this sweet talking schmoozer.

If people thought Bush was bad, wait until this guy doubles your taxes and grabs his ankles to appease foreign countries.

[rexvos]

I don't like either of the nominees. If Clinton would have beat Obama, I would not care who won the general election because I know neither Clinton or McCain would screw up this country. But now that Obama is probably going to be our next president, I cannot believe Americans are going to elect this sweet talking schmoozer.

If people thought Bush was bad, wait until this guy doubles your taxes and grabs his ankles to appease foreign countries.


I agree with you for the most part. Of course Americans are going to love OBama. We are the same country that cares what friggin high school dropout celebrities think about politics.

People are fixated with his charisma. As a whole this country is not very intelligent. They do not understand any issues. They just know what they are fed by the media, be it conservative or liberal.

It is sad when we cannot have a leader that is not concerned with party politics or spending millions upon millions on election campaigning. He is just a smooth talking mouthpiece for a political party,

One of the few reasons I like Joe Lieberman. I do not agree with his views on everything, but at least he is his own man and he is not a pawn of a particular political party.

[GiantFan]

I agree with you for the most part. Of course Americans are going to love OBama. We are the same country that cares what friggin high school dropout celebrities think about politics.

People are fixated with his charisma. As a whole this country is not very intelligent. They do not understand any issues. They just know what they are fed by the media, be it conservative or liberal.

It is sad when we cannot have a leader that is not concerned with party politics or spending millions upon millions on election campaigning. He is just a smooth talking mouthpiece for a political party,

One of the few reasons I like Joe Lieberman. I do not agree with his views on everything, but at least he is his own man and he is not a pawn of a particular political party.

We need a great leader at this point in time and not just a great speaker. It's really sad.

[bamasa37sb34]

Luckily for us, a president isn't a dictator who can pass laws/bills/etc. as he pleases. Unless we vote in crappy Congressmen to go along with a president who we don't necessarily feel confident in, we won't be a socialist society in the next four years.

[Zeeck]

I don't believe anything anybody says during an election year. I just vote for the one I think I'd like to party with.

[AUTaxMan]

Luckily for us, a president isn't a dictator who can pass laws/bills/etc. as he pleases. Unless we vote in crappy Congressmen to go along with a president who we don't necessarily feel confident in, we won't be a socialist society in the next four years.

Some will argue that the Congress you speak of is already in place.

[GiantFan]

Some will argue that the Congress you speak of is already in place.

Our Congress is a disaster as well. There are Republicans who ran on cutting spending are some of the biggest spenders.

[scrappy]

i am voting for the one person who will get us out of iraq and afgahnistan and bring our boys/girls home. i don't care what happens to those countries because they aren't footing the bill for this war we are in now.

we went from having money as a country to in the negative and we are still financing other countries. whoever has the best plan to get the hell out of foreign countries and back here to focus on the US will have my vote.

right now it sounds like Obama has a game plan and is willing to get out of iraq by 2010 which is what they want also.

if he were to pick hillary as his running mate he will have the presidency locked up. i think he's done well distancing himself from certain figures during his campaign and it shows that he is being himself and not someone out of a cookie cutter. he is staying away from people that can hurt him, which is smart.

i just want the war to end and for a change have someone in office who is more concerned with Americans than they are people on the other end of the world.

[GiantFan]

i am voting for the one person who will get us out of iraq and afgahnistan and bring our boys/girls home. i don't care what happens to those countries because they aren't footing the bill for this war we are in now.

we went from having money as a country to in the negative and we are still financing other countries. whoever has the best plan to get the hell out of foreign countries and back here to focus on the US will have my vote.

right now it sounds like Obama has a game plan and is willing to get out of iraq by 2010 which is what they want also.

if he were to pick hillary as his running mate he will have the presidency locked up. i think he's done well distancing himself from certain figures during his campaign and it shows that he is being himself and not someone out of a cookie cutter. he is staying away from people that can hurt him, which is smart.

i just want the war to end and for a change have someone in office who is more concerned with Americans than they are people on the other end of the world.

Obama has announced over the last few days that he would like to move 7000 more troops into Afganistan.

[JuanGonzales]

Our Congress is a disaster as well. There are Republicans who ran on cutting spending are some of the biggest spenders.

Congress sucks arse! The democratic congress took over at the begining of last year. Figure in the six months it took their policies to go into effect and that is about the time our economy started going to crap....lol They are way more to blame than the President for the economy crap that is happening now cause it was not happening two years ago. :lollol::lollol:

[Bounty13]

Our Congress is a disaster as well. There are Republicans who ran on cutting spending are some of the biggest spenders.

Well look for the Republicans to lose even more seats in the Senate and House this fall. Not sure if Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will continue to lead both, but these are two liberals who said America has lost the Iraq war and have said just about everything else anti-American. Those two combined with Obama... :sick:

[Bounty13]

i am voting for the one person who will get us out of iraq and afgahnistan and bring our boys/girls home. i don't care what happens to those countries because they aren't footing the bill for this war we are in now.

we went from having money as a country to in the negative and we are still financing other countries. whoever has the best plan to get the hell out of foreign countries and back here to focus on the US will have my vote.

right now it sounds like Obama has a game plan and is willing to get out of iraq by 2010 which is what they want also.

if he were to pick hillary as his running mate he will have the presidency locked up. i think he's done well distancing himself from certain figures during his campaign and it shows that he is being himself and not someone out of a cookie cutter. he is staying away from people that can hurt him, which is smart.

i just want the war to end and for a change have someone in office who is more concerned with Americans than they are people on the other end of the world.

Anyone who tells you we can completely remove all troops from Iraq by 2010 is lying to you. That's just what the media has been spewing out, "Hey look, Obama and the Iraqi government agree, McCain doesn't share the Iraqi governments views." If we would have listened to Iraq last year that we can leave Iraq there would be no more Iraqi government, they would be in a Civil War and Iran would own them. If you think oil is expensive now, wait until Turkey invades Northern Iraq and Iran owns the rest. We'll be right back there in 3 years fighting another war.

[scrappy]

we went in there after oil in the first place and it hasn't done us a damn bit of good. gas prices went up instead of down. this war has cost in the trillions and is still going up. we still haven't caught the guy that we were after in the first place. i'm sure people would stop bitching about the war if we at least caught bin ladin.

[Rake]

Nothing matters. All candidates once elected will be the same. American politics are set in stone, the dream is dead.

[bamasa37sb34]

Let's just elect her and call it a day:

http://www.jibjab.com/view/181511

[AUTaxMan]

we went in there after oil in the first place and it hasn't done us a damn bit of good. gas prices went up instead of down. this war has cost in the trillions and is still going up. we still haven't caught the guy that we were after in the first place. i'm sure people would stop bitching about the war if we at least caught bin ladin.

This "we went to war for oil" argument is ridiculous. If we went there for oil, how come we haven't taken any, and how come the Iraqi government isn't selling it to us for decent prices? We went into Iraq based on faulty intelligence over WMDs. Not oil. The price of oil is controlled by OPEC and the oil futures speculators. American oil companies control about 1.5% of the world market share. They couldn't affect the price of oil if they wanted to.

[rexvos]

Obviously not an economics major (or you a joking)... the economy doesn't recover or go to crap overnight. You can't blame the congress for what Bush has done to this country, thats ridiculous. Its the cumulative effect of his 7 years in control that has us in the shitter....

Factors outside of Presidents and Congress have caused most of the problems. To blame one man, or "Congress" is laughable.

[b70x7n]

Factors outside of Presidents and Congress have caused most of the problems. To blame one man, or "Congress" is laughable.

I blame Bush for Hurricane Katrina.

[GiantFan]

Obviously not an economics major (or you a joking)... the economy doesn't recover or go to crap overnight. You can't blame the congress for what Bush has done to this country, thats ridiculous. Its the cumulative effect of his 7 years in control that has us in the pooper....

Can you elaborate on what Bush policies have directly caused the economy problem?

I don't like some of the stuff that has been done the past 7 years. I just hate it when people blame a single person for our economic environment.

[rexvos]

I blame Bush for Hurricane Katrina.

and 911. and for Beltran leaving Houston.

[scrappy]

ok we went there looking for WMD's, no WMD's we should leave. we shoulda left as soon as it was proven they didn't have any. besides, we have em, why can't other countries?

i probably wouldn't have such an issue being over there if they were paying for this damn war. i take major issue in my tax dollars being spent in a different country. all the other countries have been smart and backed out and left that place, are we seriously that dumb that we see the need to stay over there? it's the difference between bombing iraq and strolling into zimbabwe. we aren't going there for any reason other than to benefit ourselves and we screwed the pooch on that.

i come from an oil rich state, so i'm not dumb when it comes to knowing that big oil rules the world. the companies up here are looking for anyone who will open anwr

[JuanGonzales]

Obviously not an economics major (or you a joking)... the economy doesn't recover or go to crap overnight. You can't blame the congress for what Bush has done to this country, thats ridiculous. Its the cumulative effect of his 7 years in control that has us in the shitter....

Obviously you don't know I don't take any political conversation serious. I'm just throwing stuff out there cause that is what everyone here is doing on this thread. Like you saying it's the cumulative effect of his 7 years in control without proof. I think we started going in the shitter when Clinton was in control. Wait there we go again!

[scrappy]

Obviously you don't know I don't take any political conversation serious. I'm just throwing stuff out there cause that is what everyone here is doing on this thread. Like you saying it's the cumulative effect of his 7 years in control without proof. I think we started going in the shitter when Clinton was in control. Wait there we go again!

maybe so, but at least when her hubby was prez he got "benefits" and we had money in the bank. now we broke as hell

[Will]

Below are a few lines from Obama's books, in his very own words.





From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race. '

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'


From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

[Will]

I know I cant be the only one that finds it funny, and no I didnt read this whole thread cause Im lazy this morning..but the Republicans wanted to impeach Clinton over lying about getting head in the oval office.

Bush has done far worse and nobody is bringing up impeachment now are they?

Lets be honest, to a certain extent, shouldnt Bush be brought up on charges of war crimes?:dance:

[GiantFan]

Below are a few lines from Obama's books, in his very own words.


From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race. '

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'


From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

If a white person wrote these things about blacks they would never be able to become a presidential candidate. I'm offended by these writings.

He also said that he doesn't believe in "Black Assimilation" into "White America", instead blacks should focus on creating a "Black America". How about ONE AMERICA where we all live together?!?!?

[GiantFan]

I know I cant be the only one that finds it funny, and no I didnt read this whole thread cause Im lazy this morning..but the Republicans wanted to impeach Clinton over lying about getting head in the oval office.

Bush has done far worse and nobody is bringing up impeachment now are they?

Lets be honest, to a certain extent, shouldnt Bush be brought up on charges of war crimes?:dance:

Difference is Bush was smart, yes I said he was smart, by never getting caught lying under oath. Basically our judicial system said it was OK that a president lie under oath. Good example to set for future presidents who will feel that it is OK to commit a crime and get away with it. Maybe if Clinton was impeached for his actions then Bush might've been a little more cautious with his actions.

I am no big Bush fan, well I do love bush but not Bush, but I will never vote for Obama.

[JuanGonzales]

I know I cant be the only one that finds it funny, and no I didnt read this whole thread cause Im lazy this morning..but the Republicans wanted to impeach Clinton over lying about getting head in the oval office.

Bush has done far worse and nobody is bringing up impeachment now are they?

Lets be honest, to a certain extent, shouldnt Bush be brought up on charges of war crimes?:dance:

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: War crimes....too funny. In 50 years he'll be known as the Greatest President Ever!!!

[timonahan]

I can not think of one aspect of life in this country that is better off in the last 7 years.

The prices of food, health care, fuel have gone up dramatically , and America's place in the world has gone down the tubes.

[GiantFan]

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: War crimes....too funny. In 50 years he'll be known as the Greatest President Ever!!!

I'm sorry but even though I support Bush in some areas I can't say that.

I can not think of one aspect of life in this country that is better off in the last 7 years.

The prices of food, health care, fuel have gone up dramatically , and America's place in the world has gone down the tubes.

Tim, I just can't pin that all on the president. Our economy and the world economy goes through cycles and sometimes there is nothing that can be done to change these cycles. Sure things can be done to slow some of this down but much of what you mention stems directly from the price of oil being so high, which is something that no president and no congress can control. The only thing they can do is allow more drilling here in the US to offset the cost of foreign oil but some people don't want that to happen.

Also, the Federal Reserve screwed up by keeping rates so low, which led to a ton of real estate speculation and they also allowed mortgages to become part of certain securities that can be traded. There has been a lot of speculation in this area which has caused much of the problems in the financial industry.

[GiantFan]

By the way, I commend each and every one of you for keeping this discussion civil. We may not agree but that doesn't mean people need to get at each other's throats.:cheers:

[Bounty13]

I can not think of one aspect of life in this country that is better off in the last 7 years.

The prices of food, health care, fuel have gone up dramatically , and America's place in the world has gone down the tubes.

If the cost of oil was down and inflation was low, no one could say anything bad about the economy.

Right now oil is about $130 a barrel. If you take the speculators out of the market, costs will be reduced by at least 1/4. So now you have $100 oil. If you count for inflation because of the weak US dollar (because OPEC sells oil based on the US dollar), your oil would be around $50 a barrel.

The dollar is weak because we owe so much damn money to the rest of the world. Mainly because our congress likes to add spending bills to EVERYTHING that goes to the president. Even funding for our troops was doubled in price for non-related projects. Thats treason if you ask me, blackmailing the president to sign useless projects so we can fund the troops.

Congress needs to stop spending... reduce the national debt... inflation will come down... the dollar will grow stronger... the price of oil will drop.

Man that is so simple, I guess it is just easier to blame it on Bush. So in 4 years after things are worse after Obama people are still going to blame it on Bush? How about 8 years? 12?

Not sure how one man can do all that, especially since democrats hold the house and senate for the last few years.

[Bounty13]

Dems may hold the house and senate but they can't just push through anything they want... they have a majority but not enough of one to override a Presidental veto... so nothing does go through OR get done without either the Pres signing off on it OR without a little help from the Republican side of the aisle.

So I say they share the blame for effing up this country :salut:

The president cannot get his stuff through if the congress does not pass it. Works both ways.

[scrappy]

yes it is easier to blame the president, individually. but the senate and congress all share the blame. polititions are all corrupt (alaska as an example) it's just a matter of when they get caught.

the war has cost us major bucks. we have always looked like the big bully on the playground but now we look like the big bully on the playground who is dumb and wants to pay for this on the backs of Americans fighting and on the backs of Americans taxes.

sadly this election will come down to who people like less. i don't trust mccain and i don't trust obama but i trust mccain less than i trust obama

[Brad]

There is no doubt Sadam had WMDs, not necessarily nukes, but other WMDs. If you don;t believe me, ask the Kurds who he tested them on. Sadam also preferomed mass killings (hence the mass graves we have found) and what could be termed as genocides on other muslims and Kurds. He was an unstable leader who we also know paid $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers to kill Isrealis (our allies). He made an unstable region even worse. Iraq is a much safer palce than before he was there.

[Bounty13]

There is no doubt Sadam had WMDs, not necessarily nukes, but other WMDs. If you don;t believe me, ask the Kurds who he tested them on. Sadam also preferomed mass killings (hence the mass graves we have found) and what could be termed as genocides on other muslims and Kurds. He was an unstable leader who we also know paid $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers to kill Isrealis (our allies). He made an unstable region even worse. Iraq is a much safer palce than before he was there.

There was a massive convoy of military trucks that went into Syria just before the war started, no one knows what was in them.

And we have found WMDs in Iraq, they were just left over from the Iran/Iraq war, not new WMDs, but they still had them. No one seems to report on that.

[Brad]

There was a massive convoy of military trucks that went into Syria just before the war started, no one knows what was in them.

And we have found WMDs in Iraq, they were just left over from the Iran/Iraq war, not new WMDs, but they still had them. No one seems to report on that.

There is very few positive reports coming from Iraq, mainly because of the media bias.


I think we need to start preparing to leave, but a massive pullout in the near future would be stupid. We also cannot say in exactly 16 months or whatever. Iraq is getting more stable by the day as their security force takes over. I see us leaving completley (or atleast to a small number like we have in Korea) by Fall 2010.

[timonahan]

The president cannot get his stuff through if the congress does not pass it. Works both ways.

it was a republican congress until about 2 years ago, so Bush got pretty much anything he wanted.


I am a registered republican, but I do not like this administration one little bit.



One other question, why did we spend 12 trillion dollars and send 300,000 troops to Iraq to take down Hussein who had a hard enough time terrorizing his own country, when the guy who blew up New York is the next country over and we sent 40,000 troops and spent a fraction of the money to take him down?


I always thought that was ridiculous, why not send the troops and spend the money on someone who DID hurt us, not someone who might someday do something.

[timonahan]

By the way, I commend each and every one of you for keeping this discussion civil. We may not agree but that doesn't mean people need to get at each other's throats.:cheers:

go screw yourself.

[Migraine]

go screw yourself.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Seahawcla]

Missed out on a good political discussion while I was away...

I am a moderate who thinks both parties are flawed. I am an undecided voter, and eagerly awaiting a debate between these two.

The economy in a capitalist state fluctuated up and down and should correct itself over time. What our government can do is help keep the lows from going to far. The Great Depression happened because the government did not have enough checks on business and spending. We can not have business laissez faire because businesses will not care about the consumer and labor. We will also get a loss of the middle class which in turn creates a need for the majority in the lower class to revolt. Bush and/or congress are not solely responsible for our economy. What they do to minimize this is the key.

I think the Republican party is highly flawed in its stance on reduce government spending and lower taxes. Reagan and Bush have crippled our nation in debt by cutting taxes then sky-rocket defense spending. At some point we will not be able to bear this debt as a nation. One of my biggest goals in a President is one who can brace our nation for a balanced budget yet still maintain a great nation. Lets not forget deficit spending was started by FDR during the Great Depression.

The over-spending along with the laughable stance on education by the Republican Party pushed me to the middle.

I am torn on the health care issue but to say that all other socialized health care nations are worse off then us is laughable. Unless you are middle class or better you are not insured, personally I think everyone deserves the right to be kept alive regardless of income. Insurance companies are flawed and need to be regulated or removed, there concern is not for my health but for money... that is contradicting and not right. Our system sucks, other countries systems suck in different ways. I think there is ground in the middle that could be better then anything out there. I dont see how anyone with a disease should be turned away because of income.

Afghanistan and Iraq are separate issues, and we are in Iraq for economics lets not try the whole WMD argument. Go check Cheney's bank accounts since Iraq for a good example. US was/is hoping for a foothold in the oil rich region. One where we can have a sphere of influence in. North Korea proved they had WMD's and we did not use military action there. We created a terrorist state in Iraq when we took the control from the ruthless dictator. Afghanistan was a terrorist state and our shift in focus to Iraq has let the tense region need some attention. My personal opinion is Iraq is not ready for democracy as the three distinct ethnic groups do not trust wach other to have power (for good reason). Afghanistan will be tough as the Taliban has a strong foothold in various regions. With poor economies both nations are ripe for extreme actions and revolutions. When times are tough people will listen to any crazy glimmer of hope.

We are in interesting times for World History, hopefully we elect the right people to keep our contry great at home and abroad.